Amazonia Salgado
Carola Allemandi
Interview with Sebastião Ribeiro Salgado at his exhibition in Milan.
The text of the interview was published in 'Doppiozero', May 2023
© Sebastião Salgado/Contrasto, Yara Ashaninka, Kampa do Rio Amônea Indigenous territory, Acre state, Brazil. 2016
Photography becomes memory when we immortalize symbols of time that reflect thoughts and ideologies contemporary to the moment they are taken. But sometimes images manage to speak to both the past and the future, carrying within them a meaning that is relevant to each era, becoming at once a testament and a symbol, a testimony and a commandment.
Sebastião Salgado, one of the greatest living exponents of the understanding of photography as an expression of the wonder of the earth, speaks to all of humanity through his images taken in the Amazon about its history, the origins of time and life itself. This was the essence of an intense conversation when we met him at the Fabbrica del Vapore in Milan, where more than 200 images are on display that make up the Amazônia exhibition, a veritable ode to the purest meaning that the Earth has.
© Sebastião Salgado/Contrasto, Rio Jutai, Amazonas state, Brazil. 2017
Photography, which for you is always a memory, takes the form of a message in your work. How does this transition from memory to message happen?
Actually, I would say it happens quite by chance. In the sense that, obviously, my language of expression is a photographic language, and I have a great deal of pleasure when I deal with photography, because it allows me to be there, with every part of myself. But at the same time, I realized that when we talk about the Amazon, we are talking about a huge space that would seem almost impossible to destroy. And yet, in general, they do it, they destroy it. Now, since my medium of expression is the image, I want to convey this great concern of mine, for example, about life, conscience, ideology, and also the feeling of wanting to protect this space that is being destroyed. So, let’s say this transition, this transposition between memory and the message that needs to be conveyed, happens quite naturally, in the sense that my language is transformed into communication, and I always have a great deal of pleasure in photographing.
© Sebastião Salgado/Contrasto, Yanomami shaman converses with spirits before climbing Pico da Neblina, Amazonas state, Brazil. 2014
What is your relationship with the history of photography? Your relationship with some masters, such as Ansel Adams, Martín Chambi and others, often seems evident. Does this union really exist?
Both Chambi and Adams are two absolutely immense authors for whom I have a deep respect, as well as for their work. Think, for example, of someone like Chambi, who in the 1930s, in an absolutely remote area like Cuzco in Peru, was, in my opinion, one of the most important photographers that our planet Earth had. Or Adams, with his passion for nature, for the relationship that man has with the mountains, with the forests but also with water. I would say that each of us photographers has his own place, his own location, so I have mine too. Above all, I could say that what I feel and what they also felt is this wonder that you feel when you deal with photography. In the sense that the photographer is that person who tells us the History, the story of who we are. Chambi and Adams, for example, each of them has their own story, their own life, and therefore their own discourse on life, on their origins. This is because in their work they put everything that has been their personal life: their father, their mother, the influences that all this has had on their life. And then, if they put us — me, Chambi and Adams — in the same place and told us to work, surely the three of us would do three completely different things.
© Sebastião Salgado/Contrasto, Mount Roraima, Roraima state, Brazil. 2018
Why? Because we put everything that is our heritage into our work. And so, in that intervention that is the photographic shot that lasts a fraction of a second, there is all that. And, beyond that, there is also reality, the reality of where we are at that moment, and that in my opinion is the wonder of photography, isn’t it? In addition to them I am sure there are many other photographers who work in this incredible way, and I hope that more will come, because in my opinion being a photographer is really being the memory of society, being able to see and show the wonder of our planet, embracing the very epic of history. This is what we do, because the photographer is more than a creator, he is a privileged person who, through his privilege, is able to make others see, through what he has inherited, what a certain reality is.
© Sebastião Salgado/Contrasto, Young Ashaninka woman, Acre state, Brazil. 2016
© Sebastião Salgado/Contrasto, Ashaninka family, Acre state, Brazil. 2016
You could say that you have a style, a tone that is very recognizable. How did you come to your photography?
When I was a young photographer, I was doing everything. I was doing portraits, nudes, landscapes, and so on and so forth. Then, at some point, as a young man, I realized that there was also social photography. And then I really got into that sector. Because I realized that I was living in a poor, underdeveloped country, full of problems and social issues. So I also studied social sciences, so that I could then graduate in political economy, so not in business management economics, but in a discipline that allowed me to study Marxism, to study geopolitics. And so you could say that it was my education that led me to social photography. It wasn’t me in the first person, it was like I was there almost naturally. So for me, it was just a life choice. I chose photography, all the variables that make up my life model, and I decided to deal with these topics.
© Sebastião Salgado/Contrasto, Yawanawa Indian, Acre state, Brazil. 2016
Finally, can we say that with your work 'Amazonia' you believe in the existence of paradise on Earth?
If paradise on Earth still exists. Yes, there are two or three very large Paradises on Earth. For me, these are three spaces that are still untouched and that represent what our planet was like when it was just born. This is Antarctica — my cold Paradise, of absolutely incredible beauty and size. The miracle of Antarctica is almost impossible to convey in an image. It is an incredibly beautiful, incredibly pure land. The second paradise is the boreal forest, which covers most of the north of the Earth, passes through Russia and Canada and reaches Alaska. It is a very protected area, and I am glad that such protection exists. And, of course, the third Paradise is what I depicted in the photographs of the Amazon rainforest, which for me is a real paradise on Earth. This is a pristine, pure, immaculate space, this is a place where you can see nature, especially its strength and power. I cannot describe this power without thinking of the Amazon rain, one of the most incredible spectacles. When someone visits the Amazon, they really understand from the colors and the natural power of this place what the Amazon rainforest really is. And everyone who visits it is left in awe of such a space. Then there are the indigenous peoples, who are 'us' as we were five, six thousand years ago, and who still represent the prehistory of humanity. What I call the matrix of humanity. The health of these people, the physical and moral beauty of these people is so incredible that I really believe that this is paradise.
© Sebastião Salgado/Contrasto, Young Suruwaha women, Amazonas state, Brazil. 2017
The way these populations interact with each other, with all the space, with everything else, is phenomenal, it really is impossible to describe. That is why I tried to convey to everyone with this exhibition how necessary it is to protect this part of the world. Because the survival of humanity depends on this area. It has recently been discovered, established and even scientifically studied that the moisture that is formed in the Amazon rainforest, the microscopic droplets of moisture that are formed there, are transported by rainfall to the United States, to Europe across the Atlantic and to the rest of the Americas. These are the so-called 'flying rivers'. So it is the Amazon rainforest that allows us to do agriculture, for example, in neighboring countries, in Argentina and Brazil, and it is the rains of the Amazon that are considered to be of great help in preserving the biodiversity of the planet. So we really have to take into account that the Amazon rainforest is a reserve of fresh water for the entire planet. And if humanity can live, restore and see this paradise, it will be able to maintain the health and beauty that everyone needs.
Conversation recorded by Carola Allemandi
May 2023
Other articles
Misha Maslennikov, photographing the steppe
